The John Maxwell Law of the Lid and the Third Position Nobody Talks About

If someone is a leadership level 3, they can at max in their lifetime go to leadership level 5. They cannot go to 10. And struggling, they're also putting in the effort, has a desire, has the intent. And still doesn't manage to be able to get there. Not every musician aspires to create the impact that Michael Jackson created. Why? Who you are by the time your child is born is the most important parenting gift to your child. As evolution scientists, I would like to invite some of these leaders to come and curiously explore and study and challenge us to show is it possible to get there. And we would happily happily accept that challenge. The ANH Podcast. So today we're going to talk about LID. Like when it comes to your leadership, your potential, your capabilities, your artistry. Is there a LID? Is there a LID that's set on stone? Like a bar above which it's almost impossible to cross. What do you think? Is there? There are some people in the world who believe there is no LID. You can do whatever you want in anything you want. And there are some people who believe there is a LID. And you are smarter and wiser to know the LID, the limitation, where it is set. So that you design your life wisely. If you were to think about the work that Harini and I do, we are very good at what we do. But if we were to go and, you know, become a car mechanic, or if we were to become construction company, we may start at a very, very, very, very, very, very basic fundamental level. So a LID here means that you can't go higher than a few levels above. But no LID, or meaning anybody can do anything means it doesn't matter. Even if you don't know this business, even if you're new to it, even if you have absolutely no skill in that, you still could become the best in the world at it. So what do you believe in? I'd like to give you a clue, but at the end of the episode, you'll actually get to know what Harini and I think about this. Actually, we have a third choice, which is not the first, nor the second. And I think it's a very interesting choice to explore. So Harini, what do you think? Is there a LID? So when you say LID, I'm thinking of a kitchen, I'm thinking of a bunch of vessels, and there's a LID on top. So what do you mean when you say LID? Yeah, exactly that. So there's a LID, you can't, you know, you're like, people are boxed within that. They can't go above that. But then, like thousands of years ago, they discovered the steam engine that can lift the LID. You mean with steam engine, people can go higher? Like they discovered steam. Yeah. So there's energy from the steam that can lift the LID, and that's how steam engines came about. So somebody lifted the LID, and then that became a steam engine. And then energy just took a whole new turn. Are you saying that right now, there is the technology that can take the LID of people above where it is set? I think so. So you mean to say you agree there is a LID? Agree there's a LID. I mean, for you to say that we can take, we can lift the LID. At least in the context of the kitchen, I like to close the dishes with the LID. Okay, but in the context. But are human beings close with the LID? Hmm, interesting. Because some people say that leaders are born. Some people say that engineers are born. Some people say that doctors are born, healers are born, and that artists are born. Anybody, for example, can learn to play the guitar, but they can't do it. But when someone who is already like a prodigy and expert in it, the chances that they become the best in the world is so much higher than someone who doesn't even get basic rhythm and tune. Even the IAB leagues, when they take someone into the college, they look at how good are they already, because then they can take them even higher. The idea is if you take someone who's just starting out, then that base potential, their base capabilities is so low that the presuppositions are never going to reach as high as the people who are already good at it. So what do you think? I think there are two schools of thought. One is human beings have unlimited potential. Which means even if you're starting at like a minus 10, you can get to like 2000. It's possible. So from a human DNA potential perspective, it is unlimited. But what does it take to get from even a minus something that one may be in any particular, because like I said, some people are more natural at something. They're very good naturally at certain things, but they might find certain other things very difficult. Now, can they get anything from zero to 100? Or can they get anything from like a minus 10 to like a 2000? Potentially, just from potential perspective, it's possible. But in the constraints of how we live life. And constraints of time and constraints of responsibilities. Effort that it can take to move the lid from where there's already so much, you know, like pressure. And then if you have to lift that lid, it takes extraordinary amount of pressure to actually lift the lid a bit. And then you can breathe a bit and then you can lift the lid a little more and then you can breathe a little more. And it's almost like this is how much your hands can stretch. There's a limit of the lid. That's like the limit of the lid. This is conventionally, especially because lifting the lid from here to there. Is it conventional or is it universal? Is it an old way of thinking or is it the way of life? What do you think? I think at least for 90-95% of the people in the world, the way they live with the exposure that they have and with the resources that's available to them, they pretty much function within the lid. They're putting the effort to lift the lid, but the maximum they can lift the lid is how much their hands can stretch. Yeah. So can they go beyond that? That is difficult because just to lift the lid from here to there can take a lifetime for most people. Yeah. So by the time they're 50 or 60, they've pretty much lifted the lid, which is why they're in leadership positions. And that's why it makes a lot of sense when a lot of people feel like, you know, just focus on your strengths and just figure out where you are good at, where it's effortless, get there because they know. From wherever they are, they'll go a little more higher than where they are. Yeah. That's been the way of life for a long time. So Harini, I think for the viewers, I just want to start with the idea that just be open to the possibility. I know in the new age, we just think, you know, there is no lid. Everybody has unlimited potential. While we agree with that, we also have to be careful. And I want to talk to our viewers about it, that what we have seen from evolving people helping people at the door of giving up even on their lives or sometimes on the marriages or on their careers, when we turn things around or on their dreams and turn things around, what we have noticed is that there is some truth, what people say about limitations for individuals, because a brain and a neurology is designed in such a way that we can do anything. Like people who are raised up with chimpanzees can actually digest the food that chimpanzees do, but they can't digest the food that we eat. So while we can do anything, it's in our DNA to do anything, what we do at a particular age and what, how we develop our body, how we develop our brain, how we are formed in the initial days plays a very big role in what we can and what we cannot do. And recently we came across this book which talks about leadership. And this man is supposed to be like the person who has trained the maximum number of leaders in the corporate countries, in presidents and nations of the world, the highest authority in leadership. And his book talks about the first chapter in his book talks about the lid. And he's very categorical and he takes a scale from one to 10 and he says leaders have a leadership level from either one or two all the way to 10. And he says that if someone is a leadership level three, they can at max in their lifetime go to leadership level five, they cannot go to 10. And the scarier part is he says in their business, in their teams, in different things that people do, when they try, when they work with this person, if this man's leadership level is three, then the entire team is going to be contained to the effectiveness of three or below. They're not going to be able to cross above that. And he or she may put so much effort to maybe come to five, then the entire team is stuck to five. And now this is the authority in the field of leadership saying this. We started discussing this in the ecosystem and there was a conversation about what do you think? Is that limiting or is that empowering? And I said that may sound like negative news, but what if there is truth in it? And we started validating that specific recommendation based on our own experiences of what we've done with people. And in fact, we came across a study where somebody tried to disprove this man. They went through thousands of years of references from the Roman empire to different things that happened in the world. And they came to the same conclusion again, that the threshold is based on the leader's effectiveness and the leader's effectiveness is almost set on stone. If they're a level five, they're probably going to go to level seven max. And we have seen this because if I start with my career as a chief technology officer, now when I joined the company at that age, I was 23, I was already an author for books. I was already involved in open source technologies and with hacker communities. And I was the chief technology officer. Now I can immediately spot a person of my caliber. Then I meet one when we go for hacking conferences, when we go for open source meetings, they kind of know and people can spot me. And generally in programmer community, you have programmers who know that they're at a particular level and they try and get guidance from somebody who's a little more senior. But what we have noticed is the caliber doesn't change the seniority of programming changes. And the caliber kind of remains the same. You know, so someone who's starting at a basic level keeps growing, growing, growing, growing, growing, but they never cross the threshold where they're pioneers in the technology. They're like when something comes out, they understand the architecture and they get it immediately. So although nobody says it, everybody in that community believes everybody can learn. We teach everybody. But if you carefully observe the groups that get formed, they kind of form amongst people of the same caliber, not who are of the same skill. And what happens is someone junior might come in and the way he asked the questions, the way he processed what is being taught, he's suddenly welcomed into the high caliber group. So it's not like, you know, when you go to a corporate, you look at, you know, okay, level one programmer, level two, level three, and they all flock together. But in free flowing communities, they don't flock by the level of their experience. They flock by the caliber that they're part of. You see in medical field as well, someone has thought of the authority in that field and that person stays the authority for the next 30 years. And there are people who spend more time studying, more time dedicating to becoming better at their art. But why does that person still stay the authority is because his caliber is higher, it's set higher than the other people who are trying to catch up. So in reality, and especially in leadership, when you notice across corporates, across companies, the way assessments are done, why do they do the way they do assessments? Why do Ivy Leagues hire people on their SOP and only a few people who can achieve a particular benchmark is across the world for centuries. That's how we functioned. We have not explicitly stated it, but intuitively we have always known that there's something called caliber. There's a genius trait in a person. Not every musician aspires to create the impact that Michael Jackson created. Why deep within, they know that they can get to the next level, the next level, the next level, the next level, but they may not get to legendary. Why do so many musicians know that even when music directors audition singers, they audition people, they're looking for someone who's coming with that something. A lot of times they call it the God's gift. Sometimes they call it the aura, the blessing. There are many words we use as a society, but what we're all pointing to is for different aspects of a person's life, there is a bar and they cannot, what the society has accepted is that they cannot go past that bar. That's what the authority in the leadership is also saying. The person has trained millions of people when nation heads have gone to him and he's saying that there is a bar and period. If you are stuck with that bar, you can go two steps higher. You and I have a different opinion on it slightly, actually radically. Well, it's very interesting because we have validated evidence. We can make it happen. I think what is interesting with work we're doing is we can agree to something and yet have a very radical frame or a different opinion to it. So I want to start by telling the viewers that we agree to this, that I feel that there is a bar, there is a lid, there is a born element to it. And when I say born, I'm not referring to just being born. I'm talking about born and the early days of formation and where the caliber is set. Otherwise, let's say a person with leadership level three, for him or her to achieve certain things, they're going to put more effort. But effort can only get you so far. Now, if they think about plan and dream to be the next Steve Jobs of the world, they're going to make sacrifices. They're going to have disappointments and they're never going to have that ultimate satisfaction. In one of my articles long time ago, I've spoken about it's very important to know real constraints. You need to know the boundary conditions in life because then you can creatively work around it. Let's say a martial arts sport. And if they know that they're shorter than the other person, that's a physical thing. You can't overcome it. They're probably going to work on the other elements that will help them creatively get an advantage. So when you know what the real constraints are, then you kind of, like for example, one of these things that startups do is sometimes they know they don't have the money. Knowing that you don't have the money is not negative thinking. It's accepting the reality. Now, some constraints are visible. Some constraints are invisible until you make it visible. So if a startup knows they don't have money, then they look at growth hacking as a way to reach more people instead of the conventional marketing means. So they find, okay, this is the limited budget we have to grow our audience. How do we navigate past that? In the same way, when we know the real limitations, we can actually bypass that limitation. But not knowing that there is a bar, there is a lid, there is a constraint, there's a limitation means you're like ignorant and you're not able to overcome it. So universally, I don't think it's just a belief that people have. It's so many years of evidence across industries across literally every field, whether it's an educational institution or an organization or a teacher or an artist who's you know, teaching students, they each know, with years of experience, at what level if a person comes in, they can get the person to this level, which is why there are entrance exams for all of these. Even IAS and intelligence and everything. If a person passes these tests, that means they must be of this particular level. And then when I put them through this kind of a structured program in the next three years, they're going to develop these set of capabilities, they're going to be at this level. And this will be taken forward in the context of organizations. It's like predictable. It's almost like you put a person through this machine, and then they go through the next stage and then they go through the next stage and then the output is pretty predictable across all of these institutions. And this is true for literally every field. Music. I was invited to be a judge in one of these reality shows. And I went in as a judge in the initial round. So it's like city after city, and then we're going and auditioning, and then like thousands of singers lined up. They have the intent. They have the passion. They have the burning desire. And I see like there's this person that's coming with so much hope in their heart, with so much passion for music. And when they sing, they're singing the best that they can, even though they're putting their heart all in. If it doesn't satisfy the parameters of pitching and rhythm and the tune, and if you don't like the basics of what we call musicality, then no matter how much the person is passionate or puts the effort, the judge is going to be really nice and sweet and diplomatic and say, you know, you should practice a little more and give them a couple of tips which are never going to work. But, you know, do all of this and say, come back next year and things like that. But there's another person who's demonstrating the basics where the lid is higher. So they're not like a super polished diamond. They're like an unpolished diamond. And when they're singing, there's already a particular impact, which is a dramatic contrast. And maybe this person didn't even have to put in the kind of effort that the previous person did. Maybe this person is not even that passionate, but just the fact that they're starting space is completely different, gives them a chance to get into this competition. And then they know that if you're at least this caliber, and then you come into this competition over the next one year through the crazy amount of challenges that I put you through in this format and bring in various mentors from different everywhere, you would be able to step up, step up, step up. And you'll notice most of these people have come into reality shows by the end of one year, because in a very short period, they are given a variety of different training and exposure and exposed to the context of performance. And they lid lifts from wherever it is that they came in to the potential of what is possible. Let's say they would have gotten there in like three years or four years or five years, they've gotten there in one year. Now, the important thing is after they've gotten there, they tend to stay there or the next 20 years from there to the next level is very marginal, very slow, even though now that's their context, because now suddenly they're famous and suddenly, you know, because they're popular and all of that, their tickets sell out faster, they're being brought into more and more shows by organizers, and they're doing concerts day in and day out and day in and day out. You see the person in five years and 10 years, they're a nice performer, they've evolved, they've gotten a lot more tricks of the trade and they know how to engage the audience and all of that. But it's nowhere close to some of the references that you just took, which is like a legendary level of like a Michael Jackson. So the person comes with a relatively high lid and then I put them through like an incubator. I as an organization puts them through an incubator where they're trying to, in a short period of time, really push that lid up and it's so good now that they're ready. They now are ready for more context of performance and the context of performance pushes the lid further. But it's gotten from here to there and because of the context and the fact that the caliber is already high, now they have the tremendous advantage of having pushed that lid up there faster. So now more opportunities are opening up, more context, so more performance. They may grow faster than someone else with the same lid, but they're not going to cross that and become legendary. It's very rare. In fact, this is what happens in the investment world as well. Throughout Silicon Valley and throughout most investment communities, they look at the founders and they judge their caliber and most times it's not even about the idea, it's not about the product because the investor accepts that the idea is going to change, that it's going to fail, that the market is going to push back, that there's going to be iterations and evolvements. And then they look at the investor, they look at the founder, they look at the co-founder and they think of their caliber and can you believe that some of the best companies that we know in the world today, they formed because the investor could calibrate the caliber of the co-founders and not their idea, not their products. They do that and then they trust that person and they know they have that intuitive sense. So it's both ways. One, it's good for a person to know what their lid is in different areas so they can design their life based on where they are likely to create the maximum impact. And it's also important for someone who's betting on them, if you're hiring them, if you are investing on them, if you're creating a family with them, to know what to expect and what is realistic and do not push them beyond that. And in the music world, you call it musicality in Tamil and especially Carnatic, you use a phrase called Jnanam. It translates to wisdom. Wisdom is more than knowledge, it's wisdom. So it's like the conventional traditional music education in India kind of almost thinks of it because they think of wisdom comes from God and they call that as wisdom. They don't call it as musicality. So there's like in every occupation, you'll actually see that they measure this lid differently, but the common acceptance is that you come with a particular caliber. And it's one thing to be philosophical, but it's another thing to be practical. And the people who are successful are practical. They look at, okay, what is the lid? What is the potential of this person with minimal training? And most times trainings fail. And I totally believe that trainings fail. They fail to help a person cross that lid. They succeed in helping a person maximize within that lid. And I think that is a difference. I think you should just talk about that again, because in my head, I'm hearing like a whole bunch of trainers saying, what are you saying? My training is so effective. I get the most amazing feedback and I get like a 10 on 10. And then I'm just getting called by this. I started my career as a trainer. So no disrespect. I love training in my heart. I train people all the time. I started a career as a trainer, as a tech trainer. In fact, I used to give speeches and I got picked up for training languages like PHP. And I used to go and say, I'm not here to teach you PHP. I'm here to teach you programming. So not just like surface level training, but like real deep training to convert people into really efficient programmers. That's where I started with. So I'm not saying training doesn't work. I said training doesn't work in helping people cross a lid. A lot of times when you're training people, they're coming at an early stage, but their lid is higher. Their lid is higher. So if this shows their expertise and this shows their lid, your ideal catch is someone where their lid is here, but their current experience is here. So your training can maximize their potential and bring them up very fast. Within their lid. And sometimes push it a little higher. And when you go senior and senior and you start training senior people, then you start meeting people where the lid is here and their expertise is there. Or sometimes you meet people right there and you push them higher. But to go beyond that, training is very inadequate. Because a lot of times when you think of it, just if I talk about programming, for a person with a really high lid, they can run simulations in their head. They can tell you what the compiler is going to say before the compiler says it. That level of mental processing power, most people cannot build. And that doesn't come by learning programming or doing it on the job. That comes from a variety of factors. And that's true for musicians too. For example, you know, a lot of musicians, for example, Ile Raja can compose an entire symphony in his head. And when people play it out, it sounds the same. Most people can't even hear two instruments at the same time. It's impossible in their lifetime to develop those capabilities. So what people actually see as lid, we see it as capabilities. We have a decoding of it. So since we are in the business of superior capabilities, and especially UP is a program where we do superior capabilities installed, it's our fascination to observe capabilities, to study capabilities. And one of the things we found out is all these things that people call as a reason why there is a lid is actually capabilities that are really difficult to acquire. But what we have also noticed is that there is a way to acquire those capabilities. In fact, capabilities are invisible, because you can feel the effects of capability, which is like the lid is higher, because we are really talking about fundamental capabilities, we're talking about internal capabilities, we're actually talking about capabilities that are invisible. So with these invisible capabilities, they form the lid, you feel the effects of having it or not having it. Like we know now a set of capabilities internally can result in the effect of someone being musical. We know now a set of capabilities internally can lead to the effect of someone being highly intuitive. We know that a certain internal capabilities can lead to the effect of someone being highly charismatic. Now these are some of the things that lift the bar for leadership. In fact, in that very book where he talks about the lid, he talks about intuition and charisma. And we've had installation programs to heighten intuition, to heighten charisma, and to heighten most of the stuff that I mentioned over there, but not through training, not through coaching, but by superior capability installation. And installation can work in three different ways. One is you just install, you use storytelling, you have activities and you do it. But if you exactly know the capability you're going for, it gets developed. Capabilities can also be developed by creating the prerequisites that lead to a certain life experience. And when you have made them ready, taken care of the safety board, and then you push them into a particular life experience, the capability naturally evolves. But it has to be a kind of the life situation that can forcefully push the lid up. Now we've known stories of, you know, there's a fire and the child couldn't walk, but because of the danger, suddenly learn how to walk. How people have demonstrated like superhuman capabilities, like a lady that was published on all the famous newspapers, or all the famous media about lifting a car to save her father's life. And we all have heard of incidents where when there is a prerequisite condition, people do supernatural things in their body that they couldn't have otherwise done. What we have observed by experience is that's also true in developing capabilities that they otherwise don't have. So when people are navigated and maneuvered towards certain experiences in their life with the prerequisites set up and safety, then it kind of pushes them to break free from that lid and go higher. So I think that capabilities and training can push the person's skills up as much as the capabilities can support. So the trainings, experience, teaching, everything that we have in the world today that most people know of, is like a person already has capabilities and they're able to push the skills of the person up until they reach probably, you know, their extraordinary trainer, they're able to reach like the top of the lid. But from there, to develop certain other things which are beyond the scope of training or coaching or teaching or even learning by experience, because you can be around somebody who has a lot of experience in that particular field or has certain traits and characteristics that you can be around the person and still not pick it up because the capabilities don't support that. I mean, one has gotten to the edge of what's possible or the top of what's possible. But to go from there to this space is what is considered impossible, literally, in the world. So if people have gotten there, it's because their capabilities were never there, it was already there. And their skills may have been here, but they've learned, learned, learned, they've gotten all the resources, the teaching, the environment, the ecosystem that's taken them all the way up to there. So that's one of the things we do when we meet someone for consultation, and a lot of people call this as we are good at noticing unpolished diamonds. But if you have to translate that to a strategy, what we really do is we can spot instantly someone where their lid is here because of their capabilities, but their training is here. So that's like the easy hack. Like, you know, they may be putting all their attention on some other area of life, but you notice in this particular context, the lid is here, the skill is here. So you can immediately get them like a 10x, 100x boost. And with the smallest of tweaks. And then comes the other part, because in some areas, especially things like family evolution, or leadership, or entrepreneurship, you realize that their lid and where they are is almost on par, and this person is really dreaming bigger. And struggling. It's also putting in the effort, has a desire, has the intent, and still doesn't manage to be able to get there. Yeah, like they're not there. Yeah, accelerated personal evolution comes to the rescue. If we can design the right set of innate capabilities, and the life experiences, we can push that lid in as short as six months. So when we actually mean evolution, what we're really meaning is the transformation, the capabilities, and the growth that happens in the person that pushes the lid in different areas of their life. Maybe the leadership lid is here, maybe their core artistry lid is there, maybe their family evolution lid is here. What evolution really means is that it's pushing all of the lids, at least to the next level. Because in a lifetime, according to this man, and we agree with it, the world agrees with it, and it's practical and empirical based. Someone with a lid of five can only go to seven in their lifetime. If you're moving their lid from five to six, which means they by themselves can go to eight, you have already helped them achieve what they would have never achieved in their life ever. And if that can happen in six months, that's to me almost magical. That's like you're reshaping, just like how the world never could see men and women fly before airplanes were invented, they have never seen the lid go higher than what was considered possible for a person. And you also said that people have tried to disprove it, and they've done this across thousands of years, seen so many examples where it's not been possible, which is why a lot of times when people meet people who come to us, they feel like this is not like it's too good to be true. How is it even possible? Because is it possible that you take someone with a lid three, where they can actually probably get to a five in 20, 30, 40, 50 years? And can we get them to lid six, lid eight? In like six months? Well, I would say one lid at a time every cycle of evolution. So maybe like lid three to lid four in six months, lid four to lid five in seven months, lid five to lid six in another six months, and lid six to lid seven in two years. So if the maximum that was possible for that person, which is not like random theory, but it's come from like studying people across industries for thousands of years, and if the maximum that's possible in a lifetime is like five, but if they're able to get to eight with targeted personal evolution, that is mind blowing. And I'm so happy that some of these experts in leadership are still alive at this fascinating time in this world where this technology is available. And as evolution scientists, I would like to invite some of these leaders to come and curiously explore and study and challenge us to say these are the leaders and this is their personal rating of their lid and to challenge us to say, show, is it possible to get their lid higher? And we would happily, happily accept that challenge. I mean, I remember Harini writing this blog in 2014 about the transformational effect when it comes to trauma and stuff like that for people. And I invited the entire scientific community on the blog saying, come and if you're interested, I will prove anytime any set of people will prove and without me being involved. So you don't say that because of some mysterious aura that it's a scientific process without me being involved with a team of people, I'll get you certain outcomes. And I published this in my blog. And now we have a medical college and university doing the study in that space. So who knows? I wrote that so many years ago and then this thing suddenly popped out of nowhere. Now is the time for experts in leadership. We welcome them. Come study, ask challenges and say these are the 10 people, these are the 100 people and this is their leadership lid. Can you demonstrate that it can go higher? And we would happily do it. And can you imagine at no how much it must mean to organizations because we know that people right at the top know how difficult it is to evolve people. I heard Elon Musk talk about this in one of the interviews is to have people at that league in the organization and what it means to the organization is when that person evolves and thereby just that delta, the contribution. What it means to organizations and also what it means to the individual to just cross that lid. Just personal faith, I believe that humans were created in the image of God. So you must have all the capabilities and abilities and maybe somewhere we lost the art of evolving, of getting good, getting better by looking at models, by looking at people who have done it before. And as evolution scientists, our agenda is to bring it as a science to make it available for people on demand to evolve. And I think we talk about extending impactful life. Our agenda is not just help people live longer and happier, but to help people live more impactfully and just the impact that they can create. Because when someone's lid is at three, you know, and they're struggling, maybe 20% of their time goes into doing things that are impactful for the world. 80% of the time it goes into conflict resolution, managing people, explaining things and all the stuff. But when a leader is at a level 10, 99% of the time is going to go in creating impact. Because so many things are on autopilot, so many things come so easily to them. You're extending impactful life. That's the whole idea of what the justification for having the science of evolution and just the fulfillment that people could have the joy and the happiness. And for our audience, I would like them to think of the lid as an equalizer. Like when we play music, we have an equalizer, like, you know, you have these things that go up that go down. So it's not like it's a lid on them. It's a lid on their abilities in different areas. So parenting, lid, leadership, lid, entrepreneurship, lid, worker, lid, artistry, lid. Some of these lids are invisible, but it might be a good idea for them to like take a chart and try and evaluate where are they. And the whole idea of personal evolution, and especially in this podcast, we talk about so much of the art of evolving. And the whole idea of personal evolution is can you cross that lid? Now there are some areas where you're starting fresh, you don't have any training, you don't have prior knowledge, you don't have the right strategies, you've never had anybody mentor you. So there you might just catch up to your lid. So if you've not done that already, like the way you know your lid is you do all of these first, and then where do you come and stop? That is the lid. And from there to go to the next level, the sure shot way is accelerated personal evolution through excellence installation. We've spoken about this before. We've spoken that installation is that moment where something radical happens in a person's life and their entire configuration changes. They just jump to a different new person. And we've got mythological stories, but we've also got real history based evidential stories where during the moment of crisis, some people change and then they're a completely different person altogether. We have had those examples. But the question is, can that be engineered? Can that be designed so that without going through those difficulties, you could have other life experiences that builds you, that takes you to the next level? And that's excellence installation. And excellence installation is the sure shot way for accelerated personal evolution. And every time you go through a personal evolution of that sort, you're actually moving in many areas of your life, a lid from where it is to the next level. And you said, is this only true about leadership? I think it's true about parenting. I think it's true about our history. It's true about everything. There's a lid everywhere. There's a lid everywhere. And we've known it. If you go back and see how universities accept people, how companies hire people, how teams are formed, the rules of the battlefield, you see that people have always picked people by looking for where the lid is and everything. You have an open invitation for leaders or you're opening it for leaders and more as well? Well, I just know that we have demonstrated that the lid can be caused everywhere, but it's open for everybody. I'm open for the next Michael Jackson to come and say, can you get three people to get legendary and pick the audience? Are you? Am I what? Open only for leadership or are you challenged with anybody? I think primarily leaders in the world that want to solve a problem that they consider at this point of time there's no solution to it because there's so much that the world has solved from a technology perspective, from a process perspective. That's very interesting, a distribution perspective and all of that. But when it comes to people and what is possible, I think that the majority of the world is. It's very interesting. When people come to us, most times personal evolution is their last choice, especially in business and other things. First, they try to change the strategy. Then they go and catch some guru. Then they get a consultant. Then they change the people. Then they try to replace themselves. They do everything. And then finally, they're like no choice. Personal evolution is the last choice. Because I think there's like a deep ego for a lot of people to feel like there's some space for improvement in them. Now, although, you know, in the new age, everybody says, oh, you have to get better. You have to train yourself. I feel that's just the logical mind talking. I think emotionally, a lot of people have a lot of resistance to just accepting that they may have opportunities for improvement where they can get to the next level. Even if they do believe that, then maybe they feel like they have to do it themselves. They have to do it themselves. And also people know through experience that their nature is difficult to change. They've not seen anybody's nature change. Why would they think their nature can change? So they don't know that evolution is possible. And so when they come for personal evolution, it's the last choice. They're like, we've tried everything. Let's try this. And then we help them out. But where we find the true blessing, people who come, they're already doing well. They're already doing great. And then when they explore personal evolution, now you're not doing a crisis rescue. You're actually taking them to the next level. So if I have to extend the thing that you're talking about, we are saying the lid is a real problem in people's life. And personal evolution is a solution. It can solve it. It can take it to the next level. And we are free to open that invitation to anything in the world that has been tried to solve before, but it couldn't be solved. And we know even if you come to us after having tried everything else with accelerated personal evolution, that problem can be solved. This can be world hunger. This can be the reducing number of birth rates in countries like Japan, where they're afraid that the population can be extinct. And we know you can design installations. You can design installations to movies, to songs. You can change the culture to installations. And you can actually solve these problems through accelerated personal evolution. Anyone who's passionate about something like this, we invite them. And even this research that we're doing in the medical college, we are actually funding the study. We are not charging for it. And we are, but we are doing like so many impossible things to demonstrate that it's possible. As long as someone with the right intent is willing to come and explore a solution to a problem, which has been tried, they've tried it solving the technology. They've tried solving with everything. And they say, can personal evolution, can evolving the individuals be a mechanism to solve this? And perhaps until now, that thought hasn't even occurred. Like, what? Like how? Like, yeah, like how is it really possible? Well, it is because most problems, this is like a solution that is so obvious, but it's invisible to the world. It's not yet reached to the world over decades and decades and literally like thousands of years. There's been a limitation of what's possible to achieve in this space. But we've shown in a variety of different examples as to how we, through the work that we do with excellence installations, have been really able to lift the lid beyond what was considered possible. And hence, the invitation to challenge us. Yeah, the invitation to challenge us with a genuine high quality challenge, like a genuine high quality problem that you want to solve, like with the right intention, like you said. We'll be very glad to consult and implement and research. I think that's the right word. Yeah, we'll be very glad to research and demonstrate the possibilities. Yeah, with leadership, we don't have to research. We know it, we've done it. We're just demonstrating. But certain world problems, they might be a component of demonstration first at a small scale and then exploration at a larger scale. That's why I use the word research, not to mean that you're just going to endlessly theorize. It's an unexplored territory for people who are trying to solve world problems. But there's gold and diamond out here that I think people should definitely explore. Yeah, an accelerated personal evolution doesn't have to be the last choice. I'm hoping that the world comes to a space where it's the first choice. How do you increase your profits? Personal evolution. How do you bring more happiness? Personal evolution. And it has to be the way. I think technology and other things are accelerators. They are enhancers. They should be supporting. So when you say personal evolution, you're definitely not talking about stuff like calm, be more relaxed, do your meditation and do your rituals. Not that kind of stuff. So Harini, I've met people who've gone to like two months, three months to meditate into forests, into mountains and they're very peaceful when they come back. But the moment they step back into work, they're the same person. It's just like three months was erased off their life. So it's not about being calm and peaceful. It's about being efficient and effective to yourself. And being able to do things that you couldn't do before. Yeah, so everybody can be peaceful when you step away from situations. It's like, can you be smart, creative, peaceful and all of that when and intuitive. And the biggest challenge with predictive intelligence is can you know the things that can go wrong and still be calm? Can you know the things that are happening in your business in the world that you don't agree with and still have the superior state choice to deal wisely without it burning you out, without it hurting you, without it doing damage to you and without it damaging the people around you. I remember this story from a doctor who was talking to me about a lot of cases he's seen as an anesthesist where a gynecologist is helping the woman deliver a child. And he said that in a lot of cases he's noticed that when the conditions are very stressful, when the child still survives, the gynecologist would be able to predict the gender very accurately. And she has a theory that the child that is coming out in certain stressful conditions, if it manages to survive, it has to be a female. Because according to her and what she found out is that the female child, even at that level, has higher resistance and higher tolerance to a more stressful environment in the womb. So this doctor was talking to me about how sometimes when in a family the lady has a lot of stress, she's like managing this, managing cash flow, managing that, managing children not listening and character flaws there, it doesn't kill her. But you see that as a kidney failure, a liver failure, organ failure in the So different people have different levels of threshold. Like even in taking stress there is a lid. And sometimes in families you find that a person may have a higher level of taking stress. So they can take stress, nothing happens to them. But their partner or their children when they take the same level of stress, they're finished. So what happens when leaders are stressed is that nothing happens to them. Because a lot of times leaders who are stressful have a lifetime experience being stressful. They can go to a mountain, take vacation for two months and come back. But when the work starts, the stress hits them. One of the challenges that we have with predictive intelligence is we've noticed that when people start knowing what all can go wrong in their life, can they still be calm and handle it? So a lot of times what happens is when a leader's experience increases, suddenly they were ignorant until then, but suddenly now they start seeing things. So generally increasing the experience of a leader should result in a good thing. But in some cases the leader is doing well and their predictive intelligence becomes more because they're noticing things. And now they're starting to become stressful. Now things that are conventionally available doesn't help them to not be stressful in those situations. It helps them to reduce their while they do that activity, but not during the stressful situation. And so what happens is when this leader becomes stressful, it becomes a stress for the entire team that works with them. When they are effective, when they panic, when they have fear, everybody starts getting affected by that. Just like in a family, you know, when women with high threshold of stress, they don't have the heart disease. The heart disease is in the family members who stay with them. So when we say personal evolution, we're referring to each of these people having different threshold. And we're looking at in order for them to go beyond the lid, we're helping them develop targeted capabilities that'll help them just expose themselves to contexts where they can create greater impact, be effective and not be stressed out. Because sometimes with like 10 times higher than the kind of context that you may currently be exposed to, it can be overwhelming. One can get stressed out. So when we're referring to personal evolution, we're talking about lifting the lid in every area. And emotional, innate emotional mastery is one of the area. Like where someone's emotional, innate emotional mastery, if it's here, going for a three month sabbatical and just chilling out on a vacation is not going to change them. It just means that they're dropping their responsibilities for a while. They come back and when they pick up their responsibilities, there's going to be a time when they warm into it. It might feel like now you're very relaxed, but hello, like responsibilities for it to hit you, for it to be meaningful, takes it one more period. By the time they warm into it and they get back to the peak of their responsibility, the impact that they can create, everything comes back again. Because they're lid for innate emotional mastery. If it is low, they're going to be stuck there. So evolution is when that goes higher to the next level. And like innate emotional mastery, there are other areas. There's leadership, there is intuition, there is artistry. There's so many areas. Evolution is when in many such areas, the lid goes to the next level. And the surest way we know to make that happen is by developing targeted superior capabilities. Developing superior capabilities with installations, developing unconscious knowledge, things that become as knowledge after you have exposure to certain things for years together, delivering them and through messaging and storytelling at the subconscious level. So unconscious strategies, unconscious capabilities, unconscious life directives. What do you want from your life? Because when you change the capabilities and lift the lid, you also want the person to play at a higher level because they go hand in hand. They kind of support each other. So, and in many cases, also correcting unconscious conflicts and aligning unconscious priorities. Internal conflicts that they may not be aware of. Yeah. It's very interesting how so many people that we've met and the people that our specialists have met and done this for. The patterns are so different. The capabilities that we develop for each person is so different based on where they are. And in compressed time, how quickly can we get them to like the next lid and the next lid and the next lid and the next lid? Yes. And when someone is in a lid, if you put someone into a building and there's a ceiling, they know they can't go beyond that ceiling because there's a ceiling there. It's a visible lid. But the challenge is many of these lids are invisible. People don't even know it, that it's a lid. They may just think, oh, I don't have exposure. Nobody trained me. Nobody taught me. I didn't do this. I didn't do that. And the thing is a lot of people who have a high lid in certain areas automatically attract mentors, automatically attract people, automatically get into the context where all of these things naturally happen. That is the beauty of that. They may be thinking that, you know, if I had the chance, I would go there. But the chance comes when that lid is already spotted by people to be at a higher level. So for me, the best kind of people I love are people who can point out at my lids in areas that I'm not paying attention because it's invisible. And sometimes you don't know that there's a lid and someone shows it to you because now you have the signs of personal evolution. And once you know that there's a lid, you can blow it off. You can push it higher. When it is invisible to you and someone shows it to you, and we didn't have the signs and someone showed you the lid, it still would make a difference because now you keep that limitation in mind and find a way to go around it. Like, you know, sometimes you're going in a road and there's a barricade. It's good to know there's a barricade so you can plan ahead to go through an alternate route for the final outcome that you want. But it's even better now that you have the signs of personal evolution. You can just blow through that lid and just like get to a space that's even more empowering. Safely, ecologically. So important. I don't know if it is formed only during the early days of childhood or if it's formed right from the womb. And I think the most important parenting commitment that a couple needs to have is the emotional well-being and the environment of both the father and the mother while the child is being conceived and is being born. Because now scientifically we know that the first sperm is not the one to fertilize with the egg. There is a decision-making process going at the mitochondria. So while you conceive, body of the woman is already making a choice on for this environment, for these threats outside, for these type of resources available, what configuration of a child do we want? Because I said it's like an equalizer. It's not like everything is high. And if you think of a musical piece, you know, if everything is flat line, it's not that interesting. So they all have like different mixes. So there's various possibilities in the genes. And then that's why when you think about genes, not every child represents their parents. Some represent their grandparents. Some represent their great, great, great grandparents. And science now shows that some of the traits from last 20 generations can come. So which means the diversity of the child that is possible between a couple is over a billion different variations. And that's why sometimes you can even see so different a child from the parents. So the body is choosing many things of which some of it is the initial configuration of the lid. And for the environment and for the circumstances, the child is coming into the world. And it's a very important decision that's being made. So for the parenting is actually beginning before you even have a child. It's starting at the time of conceiving. And the process to which the child is being formed, there's so much symbiotic connection that happens between the child and the mother. Now science is showing that there are cells from the child that goes and impacts the brain of the mother. So now the female's body is choosing the type of child because by choosing the sperm and then based on the child that's being formed, the child's reactions and responses and the child secretes certain proteins that go and they impact the brain of the mother. So now it's like the female is no longer the same lady because now while she's with the husband physically at least there's no scientific evidence that his presence, his intimacy or anything is changing the lady. Other than what happens to modeling and unconscious priorities being aligned through the self-initiated, auto-initiated involuntary responses from the lady herself. And in the case of the child it's different because now there's a physical thing coming from the child in the womb and going and changing the brain of the mother. It's making her more immune to diseases, it's making her more emotionally balanced and so there's already a relationship that started. The child is changing the mother and the moods of the mother is changing the child. It's scientific now that these things are happening and so the lids are not starting after the child is born, it's before the child is conceived, during the conception when the child is being formed, the environment that the child is in. And scientific studies are showing now there's this thing around which the child is wrapped. The quality of food that the mother is eating determines the quality of that flesh-like structure that's formed inside. Like you know because after the child is born they take that out and when they see the covering, the material, the flesh is different. The lady has like healthy food and happier, the material is so different from, it's chaotic. And so all of these things are now formed are resources for the child while it's being formed at that early days. It's making so many calculations, it's making so many imprints. There is an imprint of what kind of abilities to expect that is actually imprinted by the child right at birth, like before the birth. And I think it's like documented into all our veins because there have been signs in the past where you could predict someone's capabilities by looking at their physical structure. So even the form and appearance is possibly a choice of where they have put the lid and a demonstration of way for people to recognize where they are good at. And that's why it's not surprising that a lot of people who are seasoned can intuitively like figure out who is good at what by just looking at the person. So there's that. So the child is already being nurtured for so many things by the parents while the child is still inside the womb. And we have heard stories within our own ecosystem. One of the things that I've heard is there was a musician who did this experiment. He took a particular rag and he played it every day while the child was in the womb and he plays the veena. Audience who may not know a veena, it's like it's a stringed instrument and he played this particular rag every day. And when the child was born, when they play music, the child listens. But when they played this rag, the child smiles and leaps. And it was just verification that the child is listening even when the child is in the womb. And we've had so many instances where we've been able to demonstrate that for our participants. A lot of them actually come when they're carrying because they want the child to get some of the installations. And so the parenting has started. And we always tell people a lot of things in life starts before we think it starts. And for parents, the parenting has actually started before the child is even conceived. Then there is the conceiving period. There's so much thing that goes on. And after the conception, the child is born. The initial days are very important because the child is forming opinions about the world. And for some animals like the chicken, the first thing that it sees, it thinks that's the model and it starts modeling them. It starts walk, it tries to emulate their behavior. For humans, we model from everybody around us. So the initial days, the child is forming beliefs and behaviors. And until the age of nine, the brain is very fluid. And that's why they don't do brain scans for children. Generally, they don't rely on the brain scans for children. Under a particular age, because they feel like the brain is continuously changing its shape. So imagine by design, the chemistry, the brain can take on whatever shape you want it to take. And different people based on their profession, based on what they want to achieve in life, their brain shapes are actually different. When you look at Einstein's brain, they said it was radically different from other people's brains. And sometimes when you look at drummers, for example, because they do so much of left and right and hand and leg coordination, you actually see there's like layers that forms between the left brain and the right brain connecting the midbrain. So there are so many things that happen. The brain actually changes shape. For an adult, it changes shape too, but it does gradually. For a child below the age of eight, the brain is not fully got its shape. It's still fluid. It's still more plastic. I mean, not plastic in terms of the material plastic, plastic in terms of the flexibility. It's still forming. So the exposure that is given to a child determines where the lids are. So now a lot of parents, they think about what education to give, what skills to develop. And I think what we know from personal evolution is can you develop capabilities across all aspects? Because then what you're doing is you're setting the lid high for the child across everything. And if the parents are high achievers, they are dreamers, they think about big things in life, they're not compromising, they don't settle. That unconsciously becomes the map of the child too, in a healthy family. In a broken family, it doesn't matter what the parents do because the child is either rebelling or the child is picking up some of the unuseful things. So when the family is not a broken family, there's love, there's connection, there's an interchange of peace and communication and happiness. Then if the parents are visionaries themselves, they're high achievers themselves, they have higher bars of desire and demonstration. So a lot of stuff that you can do for your child is actually before you have the child. Because in your life, if you've gone through personal evolution where the lids have gone higher and higher and higher, the child in the first eight years is going to perceive a higher lid. And for the child, the child doesn't see the lid, the child sees what you do and think that's normal. So the child will try to surpass that. Who you are by the time your child is born is the most important parenting gift to your child. So before you have your child, you work all the way to increase your lid. And who you become after your child is born is the next best gift because you're teaching the child unconsciously that the lids are not fixed, that the lids can go higher and higher and higher and higher. Because we want to teach people that lids can be broken. Like while we know that there are lids, we want them to also know that the lids can change. So personal evolution is like the most important thing for parenting because personal evolution decides what type of child is conceived. Personal evolution leads to how the child is formed in the womb. Personal evolution results in what is normal and natural. Is the normal and natural for the child seeing their parents, you know, at this level or normal and natural for the child seeing their parents there. That level of communication, that level of peace, that level of whatever that they demonstrate at home. And personal evolution also demonstrates to the child that that bar of excellence, that bar which is normal can go higher. Because from the time the child is born in the next 10 years, if from here you go there and the child sees that, you're installing a deep belief and conviction in the child that you can continue to evolve excellence. If you stop and ask the child, did you learn that you can evolve excellence? The child may not say that, but there's an imprint in the mind. There's an imprint of continuing to evolve. So I think this is, personal evolution can be the last resort for people, but I think it's so much more nicer, so much more beautiful than it is a lifestyle. That every six months you break free from the lids on you. Because after a particular stage in life, it's not about what your parents is, not about what the society did, it's about you. And now you have a tool, you have a science, so there is no excuse to not break free from the limitations imposed on you by these lids. Even if they're invisible, because now there's a way to make them visible, and now there's a way to move them out of the way. So continue to evolve your personal excellence, your personal evolution, and know that there are limitations and know that they can be overcome. They're both important, because with knowledge and with understanding, a lot of things become possible, which otherwise would be invisible barriers limiting your potential. So it's important to know both the invisible barriers and navigate around them, while you also break free from the barriers altogether at once. At each evolution cycle going higher and higher and higher, to the next level of potential that you are capable of in your life, in this life, in the time that you have on earth. So Harini and I will see you soon in the next episode.